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	<title>Comments for I have something to say about that...</title>
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	<link>http://hadleybeeman.net</link>
	<description>Contributions to the conversation from Hadley Beeman</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 28 Apr 2011 21:51:03 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>Comment on Uses for open data by Dave Noid</title>
		<link>http://hadleybeeman.net/2011/01/26/uses-for-open-data/comment-page-1/#comment-1334</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Noid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Apr 2011 21:51:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hadleybeeman.net/?p=159#comment-1334</guid>
		<description>Several things I find problematic with &quot;Open Data&quot; concerns both its relevance and integrity. It was years ago that spook agencies saw a great potential for collecting open source data from ever expanding networks--and that&#039;s before the Internet--as you probably know it. Hint, I&#039;m an old guy.

It is in the Information Warfare battke space that opportunities to use and project false and misleading information in order to generate whatever outcome or trigger some asymmetric event to support or achieve whatever nation state/organization/individual goal or objective that is desired.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Several things I find problematic with &#8220;Open Data&#8221; concerns both its relevance and integrity. It was years ago that spook agencies saw a great potential for collecting open source data from ever expanding networks&#8211;and that&#8217;s before the Internet&#8211;as you probably know it. Hint, I&#8217;m an old guy.</p>
<p>It is in the Information Warfare battke space that opportunities to use and project false and misleading information in order to generate whatever outcome or trigger some asymmetric event to support or achieve whatever nation state/organization/individual goal or objective that is desired.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Uses for open data by John C</title>
		<link>http://hadleybeeman.net/2011/01/26/uses-for-open-data/comment-page-1/#comment-1333</link>
		<dc:creator>John C</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Feb 2011 16:56:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hadleybeeman.net/?p=159#comment-1333</guid>
		<description>From perspective of getting governments to provide open data (I&#039;m a tech worker in a city govt),I&#039;d say don&#039;t sweat it if some of the reasons have been around for years.  Repetition helps get ideas into management&#039;s collective head. 

You can make the list more persuasive by adding hyperlinks to examples when possible.  Examples tend to find their way into emails and conversations, and can be influential as a result.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From perspective of getting governments to provide open data (I&#8217;m a tech worker in a city govt),I&#8217;d say don&#8217;t sweat it if some of the reasons have been around for years.  Repetition helps get ideas into management&#8217;s collective head. </p>
<p>You can make the list more persuasive by adding hyperlinks to examples when possible.  Examples tend to find their way into emails and conversations, and can be influential as a result.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Uses for open data by Shaping the Future of Open Data? &#171; OUseful.Info, the blog&#8230;</title>
		<link>http://hadleybeeman.net/2011/01/26/uses-for-open-data/comment-page-1/#comment-1332</link>
		<dc:creator>Shaping the Future of Open Data? &#171; OUseful.Info, the blog&#8230;</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Feb 2011 18:12:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hadleybeeman.net/?p=159#comment-1332</guid>
		<description>[...] some of the issues, see hadleybeeman&#8217;s Uses for open data and chunks of @timdavies&#8217; Open Data, Democracy and Public Sector [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] some of the issues, see hadleybeeman&#8217;s Uses for open data and chunks of @timdavies&#8217; Open Data, Democracy and Public Sector [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on Uses for open data by Sam</title>
		<link>http://hadleybeeman.net/2011/01/26/uses-for-open-data/comment-page-1/#comment-1328</link>
		<dc:creator>Sam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Jan 2011 14:21:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hadleybeeman.net/?p=159#comment-1328</guid>
		<description>&quot;is it worth it?&quot; feels like a different formulaion of a question - and not the same thing i think you answered; and i&#039;m not sure you&#039;d have answered it that way...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;is it worth it?&#8221; feels like a different formulaion of a question &#8211; and not the same thing i think you answered; and i&#8217;m not sure you&#8217;d have answered it that way&#8230;</p>
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		<title>Comment on Uses for open data by Hadley Beeman</title>
		<link>http://hadleybeeman.net/2011/01/26/uses-for-open-data/comment-page-1/#comment-1327</link>
		<dc:creator>Hadley Beeman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Jan 2011 14:15:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hadleybeeman.net/?p=159#comment-1327</guid>
		<description>Thanks, you two. Good comments!
Tim, you bring up a number of useful points.  I do take your distinction between transparency and accountability;  I suppose I have been thinking of it as an information flow view (one-way flow from inside government outwards), but you are right that they are different activities.  
As usual, your insightful comments are also challenging me to think about what assumptions I&#039;ve made.  I suspect part of my framework has come from a separation of audience groups, rather than just activities with the data.
I&#039;ll play with the categories you have suggested; I imagine (hope!) this should be an ongoing conversation.
S, what question did you think I meant to ask? :) I wrote this piece in response to many people asking &quot;Who is really going to use this stuff?  Is it worth it?&quot;  It would appear that you&#039;ve spent much more time thinking about this, and for longer, than many who are newer to the table.  I apologise though for not putting a clearer heading on the post, which might have prevented that confusion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, you two. Good comments!<br />
Tim, you bring up a number of useful points.  I do take your distinction between transparency and accountability;  I suppose I have been thinking of it as an information flow view (one-way flow from inside government outwards), but you are right that they are different activities.<br />
As usual, your insightful comments are also challenging me to think about what assumptions I&#8217;ve made.  I suspect part of my framework has come from a separation of audience groups, rather than just activities with the data.<br />
I&#8217;ll play with the categories you have suggested; I imagine (hope!) this should be an ongoing conversation.<br />
S, what question did you think I meant to ask? <img src='http://hadleybeeman.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  I wrote this piece in response to many people asking &#8220;Who is really going to use this stuff?  Is it worth it?&#8221;  It would appear that you&#8217;ve spent much more time thinking about this, and for longer, than many who are newer to the table.  I apologise though for not putting a clearer heading on the post, which might have prevented that confusion.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Uses for open data by S</title>
		<link>http://hadleybeeman.net/2011/01/26/uses-for-open-data/comment-page-1/#comment-1325</link>
		<dc:creator>S</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Jan 2011 22:46:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hadleybeeman.net/?p=159#comment-1325</guid>
		<description>What strikes me about this list, is that there&#039;s nothing in this list that couldn&#039;t have been written a year ago. And while that is good and it hits the points that needed hitting then, it does feel a bit like it&#039;s not doing much.

I&#039;m not sure that is particularly what &quot;Uses for open data&quot; should be. the borisbike apps is canonical and done to death, but it is an excellent example of things that make the service more useful. 

Hopefully when spending data starts coming out, there&#039;ll be some consideration given to why some areas spend huge amounts on something, and others little, when you&#039;ve controlled for the different types of area. There are a few (there was one from the taxpayer&#039;s alliance which looked at road salt prices - some disparities are expected, but some were just bad contracts).


legislation.gov.uk is probably another example  of transparency being useful to a group, and highly useful to a specific subset (lawyers).


but in summary, I&#039;ve read this a few times, and I&#039;m still not sure that this is necessarily the best of examples.

It&#039;s all about the what, and nothing about the why. I&#039;m not sure that you necessarily answer the question you asked, or the question you meant to ask.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What strikes me about this list, is that there&#8217;s nothing in this list that couldn&#8217;t have been written a year ago. And while that is good and it hits the points that needed hitting then, it does feel a bit like it&#8217;s not doing much.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not sure that is particularly what &#8220;Uses for open data&#8221; should be. the borisbike apps is canonical and done to death, but it is an excellent example of things that make the service more useful. </p>
<p>Hopefully when spending data starts coming out, there&#8217;ll be some consideration given to why some areas spend huge amounts on something, and others little, when you&#8217;ve controlled for the different types of area. There are a few (there was one from the taxpayer&#8217;s alliance which looked at road salt prices &#8211; some disparities are expected, but some were just bad contracts).</p>
<p>legislation.gov.uk is probably another example  of transparency being useful to a group, and highly useful to a specific subset (lawyers).</p>
<p>but in summary, I&#8217;ve read this a few times, and I&#8217;m still not sure that this is necessarily the best of examples.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s all about the what, and nothing about the why. I&#8217;m not sure that you necessarily answer the question you asked, or the question you meant to ask.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Uses for open data by Tim Davies</title>
		<link>http://hadleybeeman.net/2011/01/26/uses-for-open-data/comment-page-1/#comment-1324</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Davies</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Jan 2011 19:25:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hadleybeeman.net/?p=159#comment-1324</guid>
		<description>Hey Hadley,

I think there are two questions in here. One is what reasons do people give for being interested in open data. The other is what impacts does it have. 

Focussing on the civic uses of open data (i.e. ignoring economic benefits) I found three broad ways open data has impacts here: http://practicalparticipation.co.uk/odi/report/2010/4-3-civic-uses-of-ogd/

Those aren&#039;t necessarily &#039;benefits&#039; of open data - but at least spaces it affects things (See also some of the less obvious ways it affects things: http://www.practicalparticipation.co.uk/odi/2011/01/four-other-places-to-look-for-the-impact-of-open-government-data/ ).

Trying to use that to refine your categories, I think you would need to narrow the current &#039;Transparency&#039; category which seems to mix timetables / traffic information / potholes for an app (data for utility to citizens), with transparency for accountability. 

I&#039;d suggest categories of: 

 - Transparency and accountability (data can let people hold government to account; more actors can enter the scrutiny process; councillors and officers can be empowered as well as citizens)

 - Internal efficiency for government (data flows better inside the organisation, and with outside partners; co-creation works better; serendipitous connections can be made; procurement can be more effective; innovations can be easier shared when working from standard open data; the market for provision of services to government is changed; feedback loops help improve data - and highlight data that is or isn&#039;t needed; government can use consumer tools for analysing data outside the firewall)

 - Utility for citizens / consumers (new and better interfaces on public service are created; entrepreneurs and social entrepreneurs can build on government data to provide useful things that people need; long-tail solutions can emerge that the state could never have supported) 

 - Innovation and economic growth (people can economically exploit data for competitive advantage; data can help target marketing; enterprises can create new services with data, or add value by combining data with existing services; a focus on linked data stimulates the UK to take a leading role in this growing technological area - data acts as the catalyst for new skills and businesses) etc.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Hadley,</p>
<p>I think there are two questions in here. One is what reasons do people give for being interested in open data. The other is what impacts does it have. </p>
<p>Focussing on the civic uses of open data (i.e. ignoring economic benefits) I found three broad ways open data has impacts here: <a href="http://practicalparticipation.co.uk/odi/report/2010/4-3-civic-uses-of-ogd/" rel="nofollow">http://practicalparticipation.co.uk/odi/report/2010/4-3-civic-uses-of-ogd/</a></p>
<p>Those aren&#8217;t necessarily &#8216;benefits&#8217; of open data &#8211; but at least spaces it affects things (See also some of the less obvious ways it affects things: <a href="http://www.practicalparticipation.co.uk/odi/2011/01/four-other-places-to-look-for-the-impact-of-open-government-data/" rel="nofollow">http://www.practicalparticipation.co.uk/odi/2011/01/four-other-places-to-look-for-the-impact-of-open-government-data/</a> ).</p>
<p>Trying to use that to refine your categories, I think you would need to narrow the current &#8216;Transparency&#8217; category which seems to mix timetables / traffic information / potholes for an app (data for utility to citizens), with transparency for accountability. </p>
<p>I&#8217;d suggest categories of: </p>
<p> &#8211; Transparency and accountability (data can let people hold government to account; more actors can enter the scrutiny process; councillors and officers can be empowered as well as citizens)</p>
<p> &#8211; Internal efficiency for government (data flows better inside the organisation, and with outside partners; co-creation works better; serendipitous connections can be made; procurement can be more effective; innovations can be easier shared when working from standard open data; the market for provision of services to government is changed; feedback loops help improve data &#8211; and highlight data that is or isn&#8217;t needed; government can use consumer tools for analysing data outside the firewall)</p>
<p> &#8211; Utility for citizens / consumers (new and better interfaces on public service are created; entrepreneurs and social entrepreneurs can build on government data to provide useful things that people need; long-tail solutions can emerge that the state could never have supported) </p>
<p> &#8211; Innovation and economic growth (people can economically exploit data for competitive advantage; data can help target marketing; enterprises can create new services with data, or add value by combining data with existing services; a focus on linked data stimulates the UK to take a leading role in this growing technological area &#8211; data acts as the catalyst for new skills and businesses) etc.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Uses for open data by Tweets that mention Uses for open data /  I have something to say about that… -- Topsy.com</title>
		<link>http://hadleybeeman.net/2011/01/26/uses-for-open-data/comment-page-1/#comment-1323</link>
		<dc:creator>Tweets that mention Uses for open data /  I have something to say about that… -- Topsy.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Jan 2011 18:07:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hadleybeeman.net/?p=159#comment-1323</guid>
		<description>[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Hadley Beeman, Nick Halliday and Innovation Sociale, Katy Beale. Katy Beale said: RT @hadleybeeman: &quot;What&#039;s so special about #opendata? Who wants it?&quot; I&#039;ve written this: http://bit.ly/fGMF4I [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Hadley Beeman, Nick Halliday and Innovation Sociale, Katy Beale. Katy Beale said: RT @hadleybeeman: &quot;What&#039;s so special about #opendata? Who wants it?&quot; I&#039;ve written this: <a href="http://bit.ly/fGMF4I" rel="nofollow">http://bit.ly/fGMF4I</a> [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on DIY Publicity: promoting your band through social networking by nickev</title>
		<link>http://hadleybeeman.net/2007/12/02/diy-publicity-promoting-your-band-through-social-networking/comment-page-1/#comment-70</link>
		<dc:creator>nickev</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Dec 2007 18:11:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://collaborator.wordpress.com/2007/12/02/diy-publicity-promoting-your-band-through-social-networking/#comment-70</guid>
		<description>Nice post. I strongly agree with everything you said. The problem with most bands is that they add friends and do nothing more. Everyone these days seem to forget that it&#039;s not just about the quantity of friends, but also the quality and the existence of a true relationship. There&#039;s a great tool for DIY publicity called &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.8hands.com&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;8hands&lt;/a&gt;, which aggregates different profiles and provides live notifications. A great feature that can be handy for bands is the top 8, where the app shows you the top 8 friends based on amount of communication. With those stats, a band can make sure they keep touch with their audience on one hand, and become spammers on the other.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice post. I strongly agree with everything you said. The problem with most bands is that they add friends and do nothing more. Everyone these days seem to forget that it&#8217;s not just about the quantity of friends, but also the quality and the existence of a true relationship. There&#8217;s a great tool for DIY publicity called <a href="http://www.8hands.com" rel="nofollow">8hands</a>, which aggregates different profiles and provides live notifications. A great feature that can be handy for bands is the top 8, where the app shows you the top 8 friends based on amount of communication. With those stats, a band can make sure they keep touch with their audience on one hand, and become spammers on the other.</p>
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		<title>Comment on The spam of my blog by I Want Your</title>
		<link>http://hadleybeeman.net/2007/02/23/the-spam-of-my-blog/comment-page-1/#comment-66</link>
		<dc:creator>I Want Your</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Sep 2007 23:00:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://collaborator.wordpress.com/2007/02/23/the-spam-of-my-blog/#comment-66</guid>
		<description>i want spam on my blog please http://spamhere.wordpress.com/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i want spam on my blog please <a href="http://spamhere.wordpress.com/" rel="nofollow">http://spamhere.wordpress.com/</a></p>
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